Meeting of Minds Podcast

In Ep. 121, Jerry Bowyer interviews Rick Graber, CEO of The Bradley Foundation and former U.S. Ambassador to the Czech Republic, on the right’s shift from classical liberalism to nationalism, the failure to defend capitalism, and victories against DEI and ESG. Graber warns about judicial overreach and rising anti-Semitism, explains how Bradley Foundation grantees are steering corporations back to principle, and shares why, despite deep divisions, there’s still reason for optimism about America’s future.

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Jerry Bowyer talks with Missouri State Auditor Scott Fitzpatrick about the hidden influence of proxy advisory firms like ISS and Glass Lewis. Fitzpatrick explains why most pension plans lacked proxy guidelines (and the results of not having them), and how the left uses boardrooms to advance agendas that fail at the ballot box. He shares progress made in pushing back against ESG and why the battle for shareholder engagement is far from over.

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In Ep. 119, Jerry talks with West Virginia Treasurer Larry Pack, in a conversation touching on:

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In Ep. 118, Isaac Willour from Bowyer Research sits down with Gabriella Hoffman, the director of the Center for Energy and Conservation at Independent Women's Forum. Join us for a wide-ranging conversation, including:

Check out Gabriella’s work here and follow her on X @Gabby_Hoffman.

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In Ep. #117, Jerry speaks with Dr. John Fleming, treasurer of the state of Louisiana, for a wide-ranging conversation. Topics include:

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In this episode, Isaac is joined by Dr. Brian Dellinger, AI expert and professor of computer science at Grove City College. We discuss:

Hint: the answer’s yes.

Check out Grove City College’s work with AI in Biblical translation here: https://www.gcc.edu/Home/News-Archive/News-Article/gcc-research-aims-to-improve-ai-biblical-translation

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In this episode, Jerry welcomes Newsweek’s Jesse Edwards to unpack the controversy surrounding McDonalds’ decision to step back from its DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) hiring quotas. Together, they explore:

Jesse shares insights from his recent Newsweek article, arguing that complex societal challenges shouldn’t be solved through corporate experiments. As he puts it: “There’s no logical reason to ex...

In Ep. 114, Jerry sits down with Alabama State Auditor Andrew Sorrell. Join us for a fascinating conversation on topics including:

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In Episode 113 of Meeting of Minds, Utah State Treasurer Marlo Oaks returns for a compelling discussion on how alternative currencies—especially gold-backed systems—could offer economic resilience and restore financial autonomy to states seeking greater independence from federal monetary policy.

Jerry and Treasurer Oaks explore:

This episode dives deep into the intersection of economics, policy, and...

In Ep. 112, Isaac Willour from Bowyer Research sits down with Dr. Chris DeArmitt, a materials scientist, author, and public speaker known for his work discussing misconceptions surrounding the environmental impact of plastics. Join us for a conversation about corporate America’s plastic policies, recycling, and what the future of real sustainability looks like.

Check out Chris’ work here: plasticsresearchcouncil.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisdearmitt/

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In Ep. 111, David Bahnsen returns to the podcast to discuss how high-achievers struggle to relate to the church, how the lessons of God’s creation carry a call to human ambition, and other lessons sparked from his recent book Full-Time: Work and the Meaning of Life.

Check out David’s recent book here: https://www.fulltimebook.com/

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Oklahoma State Treasurer Todd Russ gave this speech at Lululemon's annual meeting of shareholders recently, defending a shareholder proposal urging the company to back away from partnering with non-fiduciary corporate activist groups like the Human Rights Campaign, and take seriously the controversy caused by the company's previous donations to radical organizations like Black Lives Matter & Reclaim the Block (which called for the defunding of the Minneapolis Police Department). We present Treasurer Russ' speech here for our listeners.

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In Ep. 110, Jerry sits down with author Eric Dunavant, author, entrepreneur and creator of the Kingdom ROI (Return on Intention) method. They discuss Eric’s recent book, At the Bistro with Bob, the story of Dunavant’s friendship with oilman Bob Pritchard. Jerry & Eric also discuss the importance of exercising ownership of companies, how to balance transferring wisdom & wealth, and Eric’s work teaching high-net-worth people to build & maintain relationships, not just money.

Check out At the Bistro With Bob here.

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In Ep. 109, Isaac Willour from Bowyer Research sits down with Tommy Martin, CEO of the Tebow Group. Join us for a wide-ranging conversation on topics like:

Check out The Tebow Group’s work here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tebowgroup/posts/?feedView=all

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Financial advisor Rick Figueroa gave this speech at Meta’s annual meeting of shareholders several weeks ago, defending a shareholder proposal urging Meta to be transparent with shareholders regarding preventing AI-driven child exploitation. This proposal received one of the highest levels of vote support in Bowyer Research's history - we present Rick’s excellent speech here for our listeners.

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Walker Wildmon, vice president of American Family Association, gave this speech at Apple's annual meeting of shareholders earlier this year, defending a shareholder proposal urging Apple to explain its lax policies regarding online child abuse and distribution of child pornography. This proposal received one of the highest levels of vote support in Bowyer Research's history - we present Wildmon's speech here for our listeners.

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One of Bowyer Research’s clients, financial advisor David Bahnsen, recently spoke at Gilead Sciences’ annual meeting in defense of a shareholder proposal asking the company to eschew divisive DEI quotas in its supplier policies. We’re presenting the speech here for our listeners.

Learn more about The Bahnsen Group here.

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In episode 108, Jerry sits down with Rich Todd, CEO and co-founder of Innovest, to talk about one of the biggest drivers in value-based investments: financial consultants. Rich & Jerry discuss the Christian philosophical rebuttal to ESG & DEI, the importance of having an investment manager with a pro-Christian culture, and what it truly means to be “equally yoked” when it comes to your investment strategy, financial influence, & proxy voting.

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Recently, Jerry (as president of Bowyer Research) gave a short speech to the board of directors of BlackRock, asking the company (1) to move back to political neutrality and (2) to go back to the classical economics of shareholder capitalism as opposed to stakeholderism. We present the speech (three minutes in length) here for our listeners to listen to.

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Few people are as keyed in on ESG’s “war on food” as former Nebraska State Treasurer John Murante. In Ep. 107, Murante sits down with Jerry to discuss how corporate activism is leaning heavily into anti-agriculture sentiment, how utopian visions of animal welfare create dystopia in reality, and how fiduciary duty gets applied to everything from carbon emissions to crypto investments.

Read John’s piece at NRO here: https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/11/esg-investing-hurts-the-poor-and-empowers-tyrants/

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In Ep. 106, Jerry sits down with Missouri Treasurer Vivek Malek to discuss the threat of China, the ongoing battle with Vanguard’s self-perpetuating autocracy, and the ‘Three-P’ approach: protecting taxpayers’ dollars, providing opportunities, and promoting the promise of America.

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In. Ep. 105, Isaac Willour from Bowyer Research sits down for a conversation with Dr. Paul Mueller, senior fellow at the American Institute for Economic Research (AIER). Join us for an in-depth discussion of a Protestant approach to economics, how ESG agendas advance elitist ideology, and how G.K. Chesterton can fix our social media problems.

Check out Dr. Mueller’s work at AIER here: https://aier.org/people/paul-mueller/

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In Ep. 104, Jerry sits down with Tim Schwarzenberger, CFA, of Inspire Investing. The next installment of our miniseries on a Catholic response to ESG explores how Christian investors can apply faith and prudential judgment to today’s complex investment landscape.

They dive into the levels of Church teaching authority, discuss why reclaiming shareholder voice through proxy voting is so important, and examine how DEI and ESG frameworks often conflict with authentic Christian moral principles. Whether Catholic or broadly Christian, this conversation offers practical insights for investing faithfully and intentionally in a world of competing values.

In...

In Ep. 103, Jerry sits down with Jonathan Berry, managing partner at Boyden Gray PLLC, in the next episode of our miniseries on a Catholic response to ESG. Join us for a discussion ranging from subsidiarity to diversity: we cover the historical roots of ESG & DEI ideology, the 'agency problem' and how ESG casts light on it, and the way that ESG often mirrors (and perverts) religious ways of thinking.

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In Ep. 102, Isaac from Bowyer Research sits down with Wade Myers, general partner at Eagle Venture Fund, and John de la Chapelle, COO at TruePathVision. Join us for a fantastic discussion on how Eagle is changing the game on impact investing, how TruePathVision is combating human trafficking in the hotel industry, and why Christians should embrace the growth of AI.

Eagle Venture Fund: https://www.eagleventurefund.com/

TruePathVision: https://truepathvision.com/

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Do sustainability initiatives actually fix the problems they claim to solve? In Ep. 101, Isaac Willour from Bowyer Research sits down with Christian Britschgi of Reason Magazine to discuss how Starbucks' 2018 decision to nix plastic straws in the name of 'sustainability' ended up being far more complicated than anticipated, and what corporate activists often miss in their crusades against plastic use.

Link to Christian's original piece here: Starbucks Bans Plastic Straws, Winds Up Using More Plastic

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In Ep. 100, Jerry sits down with Dr. Andrew Abela, dean of the Busch School of Business at the Catholic University of America, for a discussion on how cardinal virtues drive good business and how businesses can cultivate true virtue in employees. Jerry & Dean Abela also discuss stewardship (and how ESG is not the answer), and how concepts like private property rights are indispensable to a free and responsible society.

Check out Dean Abela's book Superhabits here.

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In Ep. 99, Isaac Willour from Bowyer Research speaks with David Everitt, CEO of GameSafe, an AI start-up combating the way predators groom children via online gaming portals. From Microsoft to Roblox, online gaming is a hotbed for child abuse - and the private sector is working hard to generate solutions like GameSafe.

NOTE: This episode contains descriptions of online child predation.

Check out GameSafe here.

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In Ep. 98, Dr. Samuel Gregg kicks off our series on Catholicism and ESG. He & Jerry discuss what a Catholic doctrine of the human person has to say about our economic vision, the moral response to ‘stakeholder capitalism,’ and why God’s command to stewardship & dominion doesn’t mean buying into false narratives about fossil fuels & environmental hysteria.

 Dr. Gregg is the Friedrich Hayek Chair in Economics and Economic History at the American Institute for Economic Research. Read more here.

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In Ep. 97, Jerry & Utah treasurer Marlo Oaks discuss the historical & political state of Europe’s anti-fossil fuel mandates, how ESG mandates on American companies hurt American employees, and a powerful legal strategy by which the Trump administration can push back against European regulators. Also, why it’s premature to take ‘victory laps’ against ESG & DEI.

Read Treasurer Oaks’ op-ed for RCP here: https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2025/02/27/collusion_coercion_and_the_eus_corporate_sustainability_directives_1094273.html

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Why are companies like Apple struggling to combat the spread of child porn in their networks? In Ep. 96, Isaac Willour (Bowyer Research) sits down with Richard Pursey, founder of cyber security company SafeToNet, to discuss why companies are often unwilling (not unable) to prevent child exploitation, the importance of the private sector in fighting human trafficking and abuse, and Richard's innovative new technology HarmBlock that's changing the game when it comes to keeping kids safe online.

Learn more about Richard & Sharon's company here.

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In Ep. 95, Jerry sits down with Trevor Lewis, an economic analyst who previously worked at the Buckeye Institute, to discuss how anti-fossil fuel policies, from nitrogen fertilizer to net-zero emissions requirements, inevitably hurt the agriculture sector and in turn American consumers. Jerry & Trevor also discuss the details of sow housing practices, the economics of oat milk pricing, and the practical realities of feeding 9 billion people. 

Read Lewis’ report, published with the Buckeye Institute, here: https://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/library/docLib/2024-02-07-Net-Zero-Climate-Control-Policies-Will-Fail-the-Farm-policy-report.pdf

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In Ep. 94, Bowyer Research’s Isaac Willour sits down with Dustin DeVito, director of corporate research at the 1792 Exchange, to discuss the Human Rights Campaign, one of the most notorious organizations pushing corporate bias on companies. Also discussed, the HRC’s Corporate Equality Index, a major pressure point for companies stepping back towards politically neutrality. Follow Dustin & the 1792 Exchange on X: @DustinDeVito @1792Exchange

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Few citizens understand how much the toxic alphabet soup of political ideologies such as ESG, DEI and CRT has burst out of academia into government and even financial markets. The first line of defense against this has been the states, particularly the formerly somewhat mundane offices such as Treasurer, Auditor General, Comptroller, Commissioner of Revenue, CFO. Woke politics in investing was a major theme in North Carolina's Treasurer election this year, and the people resoundingly chose Brad Briner to go into office and continue the task initiated by his predecessor Dale Folwell of cleaning ESG and DEI out of...

In Ep. 92, Bowyer Research analyst Isaac Willour sits down with filmmaker, producer, and activist Robby Starbuck. We discuss Robby's latest victory at Walmart, the fate of discriminatory DEI programs in the next 4 years of Republican governance, and what the future holds for getting corporate America out of politics and back to business.

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The most respected class of elected officials in America hold titles such as Treasurer, Auditor General, Comptroller, or Commissioner of Revenue. These are financial watchdogs with their eyes on the details. Worker bees. On the other hand, Congress often polls as one of the least trusted political institutions. One reason? By and large, states balance their budgets and Congress… well, doesn’t. That's why we spoke with Indiana Comptroller Elise Nieshalla in Ep. 91, who chairs the National Debt Crisis Task Force for the prestigious State Financial Officers Foundation. This group sent a letter (National-Debt-Letter.pdf) to Congress urging its memb...

With 45 billion dollars under advisement, Innovest is one of the largest commercial Christian financial consultants in the marketplace. In Ep. 90, CEO and co-founder Rich Todd joined Jerry to talk about the evils of ESG, the way that Christians' money has been weaponized against them, and why it is imperative to have aligned companies helping Christian institutions with their portfolio construction.

Financial consultants are different from financial advisors and asset managers in that financial consultants tend to work with ultra-high-net-worth individuals and with institutions. Their function is not generally to manage money but rather to work in the...

In Ep. 89, Dean Andrew Abela, of the Busch School of Business at Catholic University of America, talks with Jerry about his new book, Superhabits. Abela describes the difference between ESG/DEI and other forms of virtue signaling which are forms of pseudo-morality. Abela also explains why he used the language of a self-help book to communicate ancient truths about virtue. instead of using older language. Abela goes on to describe ways in which his book and the corresponding app could be used not just for personal development. but also on an enterprise-wide scale to help businesses create a corporate c...

In Ep. 88, Dr. OJ Oleka, new CEO of the State Financial Officers Foundation, sits down with Jerry to discuss the next phase of the battle for free markets, the role state fiduciaries play in protecting retirees and taxpayers, the need for a meritocracy, and how to go on offense against entrenched ESG/DEI interests.

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The folks from the Life:Powered initiative at the Texas Public Policy Foundation leveraged public disclosure rules to find out how state pension plans are voting at the annual meetings of the companies they own shares in. The results were pretty shocking. From 2019 to 2023, many red states, some with politicians who have publicly attacked ESG investing, are voting to the left of BlackRock. In Ep. 87, Brent Bennett, policy director of Life:Powered, joined Jerry to talk about this important new research, and why states which don't want to continue to vote with their shares for ESG ideology and "energy...

In Ep. 86, Dale Folwell, the outgoing (in both senses of the word) Treasurer of North Carolina talked to Jerry about his case before the Supreme Court to overturn a lower court case mandating that the state health plan pay for sexual transition treatments, including millions of dollars worth of surgical procedures. Folwell also talks about the true heroes of Hurricane Helene: the mountain people and local volunteer firefighters which were first at the scene. Finally, Folwell talks about the upcoming N.C. governor's race in which the scandal-ridden Republican candidate, Mark Robinson, is likely facing defeat, pointing out that...

The Treasurer of the state of Louisiana, Dr. John Fleming, joined Jerry to talk about why he opposed approval for Bank of America for a business contract due to the companies debanking of Indigenous Advance, a ministry to Ugandan Orphans and Widows. Treasurer Fleming talks about how the left has been successful in pressuring companies to a politicized and anti-Christian pattern of behavior. Dr. Fleming also talks about the corporate governance battle of the year, the attempt by activists and blue state pensions to attack the board of Exxon. Fleming talks about how to balance the need to do...

How can Christians build support networks in an arena where employees of faith feel increasingly unwelcome to be religious in the workplace? Mark Whitacre, executive director of Coca-Cola's t-factor initiative, joins Jerry to discuss forming Christian employee resource groups, responding to common objections, and what the future looks like for religious employees.

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Former Texas senator Phil Gramm joins Bowyer Research's Isaac Willour on Meeting of Minds for a wide-ranging discussion of AI, defending free market ideals in our current political moment, and the medieval/feudal roots of the modern ESG movement.

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Veteran financial journalist Charles Gasparino joins Meeting of Minds to discuss his recent book "Go Woke, Go Broke: The Inside Story of the Radicalization of Corporate America." He and host Jerry Bowyer discuss the extent of corporate politicization, from Disney's corporate strategies to Goldman Sachs meltdowns over Chick-fil-A, as well as the future of combatting ESG activism.

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Which companies have been targeted by anti-Israel activists since October 7th? In Ep. 81, Isaac talks with Ron & Vanessa of the Zachor Legal Institute to discuss anti-Israel activism, boycotts, and the intersection between ESG and the BDS movement.

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Professor and TED speaker Alex Edmans of the London Business School joins Meeting of Minds for a wide-ranging discussion on confirmation bias, decision making, and how ESG analysis can become tied to biased/black-and-white thinking that renders people and industries dumber.

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Walker Wildmon of the American Family Association returns to Meeting of Minds for an in-depth discussion of AFA’s forays into corporate engagement, current events, and the future of conservative institution-building.

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Why aren't journalists covering the tremendous bias of the pro-ESG movement? Jerry talks with Tom Jones, head of the American Accountability Foundation about the weakness of pro-ESG academic analysis, sneaky ESG malfeasance in Oklahoma, and how the AAF uses FOIA requests to expose the interconnected web of anti-fiduciary activists working behind the scenes in American business.

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Is ESG at odds with human flourishing? And how do we move beyond it? Our guest, advisor and author Terrence Keeley, served for 12 years as a managing director at BlackRock before leaving to author several ESG-critical books. He joins Bowyer Research analyst Isaac Willour to discuss the failures of ESG, the roots of human flourishing, and the political/financial future of the free enterprise system, guided by the recent AEI book Ending ESG & Restoring the Economic Enlightenment.

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Mike Sharrow is the head of C12, the most prominent network of Christian CEOs. Sharrow talked with Jerry about how ESG, DEI and SOGI (Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity) have taken a small kernel of Christian truth and built a system which creates division and rancor in the workplace. Sharrow uncovers the roots of these toxic ideas in critical theory: an offshoot of Marxism which divides the world into oppressor and oppressed, with no escape from those categories possible. Sharrow also talks about the Holy Spirit is expanding the C12 network internationally in Egypt and increasingly in Brazil, which...

Paul Tice has 40 years of experience on Wall Street managing money with a focus on the energy sector. He has worked for many of the largest firms in the world, including Blackrock. He now teaches finance at the Stern School at NYU. Tice explains exactly how ESG will tank global financial markets by destroying the energy sector on which all economics depends. He identifies the motive behind these policies driving politicians as the lust for power. He further identifies the motive for business CEOs: cowardice. Tice destroys the allegedly scientific arguments that fossil fuels are causing global warming and...

Dr. Wayne Winegarden, Senior Fellow in Business and Economics at the Pacific Research Institute, explains why the claims of ESG investing advantage turned out to be based on an illusion, which reversed itself when energy companies began to outperform tech stocks. He also points out that ESG when applied as an investment methodology increases fees and decreases returns. Dr. Winegarden warns that a crisis in state pension and health insurance plans is virtually inevitable and how red states are likely going to be forced to bailout blue states. 

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Alliance Defending Freedom is the leading defender of religious and political speech protection in our nation’s legal system. With fifteen Supreme Court victories and over 70 assists since 2011, no other organization has done more in the courts to protect religious freedom. But several years ago, ADF became a victim of cancel culture at Amazon, which kicked the organization out of being eligible for customers to direct gifts on its Smile program. ADF realized that there was another, perhaps even greater, threat to free speech than government – large corporations. In response, they launched a corporate engagement operation, headed by Jeremy Tede...

We at Bowyer Research worked with a financial advisor to place a proposal on the annual shareholder meeting ballot of Mastercard. One of the rights that comes with placing such proposals is the right to address the board, CEO, and other shareholders present at the meeting directly and unfiltered.  Usually, the advisors and ministries we work with give this speech themselves, but in this particular case, the advisor delegated it to me. It’s only three minutes long. Given the grave moral consequences of Mastercard’s actions, I was not my usual, quiet and reserved self. Some issues require a no...

In a recent op/ed for the Wall Street Journal, Commissioner of Revenue for the State of Alaska Adam Crum made the case that a recent attempt by blue state pensions to intimidate the board into acquiescing to the demands of anti-oil activists is a violation of the fiduciary duty to put retirees’ life savings ahead of politics. (Exxon Mobil Takes On Climate Extremists - WSJ). He should know. Commissioner Crum is responsible for the oversight of 138 billion dollars in public assets. And as the Commissioner of Revenue, he sits on the boards both of the state’s pension fund...

According to Alabama State Auditor Andrew Sorrell, blue state pension plans and the stakeholder capitalism movement have been attempting to intimidate private corporations into imposing policies which have been repeatedly rejected by Americans at the ballot box. Sorrell points out that the demands of anti-energy activists and blue state pension bosses would lead inevitably to an authoritarian shutdown of all oil and gas resources in perpetuity. Particularly ominous is the attempt this week to remove the board of directors of ExxonMobil, the world's largest private oil company, using the states' pension assets, which he wrote about here: State Auditor...

A group of blue state officials are attempting to use their pension funds to kick out the board of ExxonMobil because the firm has successfully sued to block an attempt by an activist group to place a proposal on the company's ballot that is hostile to the oil and gas industry. In addition, these states are pressuring Blackrock, JPMorgan Chase, and other asset managers to also vote against the Exxon board. In this episode of Meeting of Minds, Louisiana Treasurer John Fleming explains that if this unprecedented act of intimidation were to succeed, how devastating it would be to...

The battle between red states and ESG is raging in Oklahoma right now.  The pro-energy Treasurer Todd Russ is suffering massive backlash for attempting to enforce a law which calls upon the state to not do business with asset managers such as Blackrock that boycott or seek to harm the fossil fuel industry. Russ found himself on the receiving end of a lawsuit from a union boss and attacks from numerous directions, including the Republican Attorney General of the state. Jerry talks in this episode with Tom Jones, President of the American Accountability Foundation (American Accountability Foundation), who has u...

Over twenty states have passed legislation that prohibits the state entrusting the management of state assets to companies that seek to harm the fossil fuel industry. Many of these states have been under attack by mysterious, well-funded, coordinated efforts to discredit those laws and the financial officials who are enforcing them. Right now that backlash is falling hardest against Oklahoma, it's anti-ESG law, and Treasurer Todd Russ, whose job it is to enforce it. Russ talks with Jerry and brings the goods on how Blackrock works against his state's principal industry. He details how, when he attempted to fire...

Continuing our series about the battle between Texas and Blackrock (as well as other anti-energy financial entities), we talk in this episode with the chief financial officer of the state of Texas, Comptroller Glenn Hegar. He defends the Texas law which forbids the state from doing business with financial companies that boycott or otherwise seek to harm oil and gas companies. Comptroller Hegar also explains exactly why Blackrock deserves to be on that list and why the $53 billion school fund was right to divest from Blackrock as an enforcement of the law. Comptroller Hegar and other Texas officials are...

A Texas State Investment fund, under the leadership of school board chairman Aaron Kinsey, just divested 8.5 billion dollars from Blackrock. Blackrock quickly retaliated, suggesting that the move was against the law. On this episode of Meeting of Minds we talk to the Honorable Jason Isaac, formerly of the Texas Legislature, who played a key role in drafting the legislation. Isaac defends the Texas law and the decision to divest from Blackrock as in accordance with that law. Isaac also discusses research from the American Energy Institute and from the Texas Public Policy Foundation showing exactly how Blackrock attacks the...

American Family Association has been the leader among evangelical Christians when it comes to boycotting companies that violate the values of their Christian customers. AFA still leads in that area, but recently they widened their mission to focus their attention on the powerful strategy of shareholder corporate activism. Non-profit ministries often are given stocks as gifts from donors, but they do not use the legal authority that comes with those stocks to influence the companies they own. AFA is breaking the mold by using shares in Apple, and also banks they own, to oppose the pernicious practices of deplatforming...

In his new book, Full-Time: Work and the Meaning Life (https://www.fulltimebook.com/), entrepreneur David Bahnsen confronts the anti-work-ethic culture of modern evangelical Christianity and calls upon churches to reassert the Biblical mandate for hard work and high productivity. He talks about the problem of a deficient pastoral work ethic, and the tendency of the church to focus on things like family time to the exclusion of a focus on economic productivity. He argues that the modern faith at work movements and the call for business leaders to get out of the business world and spend their “second ha...

While at Davos, the CEO of JPMorgan Chase Jamie Dimon called for elites to acknowledge the economic accomplishments of the Trump administration and to stop showing contempt for 75 million Americans who are not on the left. Exxon, the world’s largest public oil company, is suing shareholder activists who pretend to represent the interests of investors while pushing oil companies away from their core businesses. On this edition of Meeting of Minds, we talk with financial advisor David Bahnsen, who last year addressed the CEO, board of directors, and shareholders of both JPMorgan Chase and Exxon, urging them to re...

The New Civil Liberties Alliance (https://nclalegal.org/) has exposed the extreme extent to which the Biden Administration has been coercing social media companies to censor the research of credible experts who dared to disagree with the party line on lockdowns, vaccines, and mandatory masking. A combination of legal discovery and Congressional subpoena powers reveals an astounding amount of collusion between the government and social media companies to deprive dissenters from their right to speak and citizens of their right to hear things the government doesn’t like. Even worse, subsequent events have shown the dissenters are right far mo...

Another state treasurer is taking on ideologically-captured Wall Street firms. Dale Folwell of North Carolina is publicly calling for Larry Fink to be fired because he is isn't doing his job. The job of asset managers is to manage assets, to put the financial returns of investors above all else. But what happens when the "invisible people…the people who work with their hands and their backs…the people who shower at the end of the day" lack the wealth and power to keep Wall Street firms from using their own money against their interests? Answer: the state officials whom...

Like most people who run for a constitutional state-level row office, Dan Elliott has a business background and a desire to focus on “worker bee” type issues, such as cyber-security. But on the campaign trail running for Indiana Treasurer, he met a law-abiding gun store owner who had his bank account cancelled for no reason other than being a gun store owner. That’s when Elliott became aware that ESG and corporate politicization was going to be battle he would have to fight. Treasurer Elliott talks with Jerry about his frank conversations with Blackrock about retirees who had to decide...

The Christian Employers Alliance is the leading association of Christian business people who employ others. Shannon Royce, its president, talks to Jerry about their upcoming conference and how Christian employers can learn what they’re up against, but also how to triumph. Topics include agility in the marketplace, how to maintain Christian identity and not run afoul of the law, strategies for dealing with ESG, and a great deal more. Listen to the interview, share it with others and visit here: https://christianemployersalliance.org/2023fallsummit/ to sign up for the most important conference for a most important group of pe...

It is clear that certain political factions have been highly successful at hijacking the debate over whether and how American companies should engage in non-core social issues. Jonathan Berry, Managing Partner of the prestigious DC law firm Boyden Gray, and a leading authority on the overlap between federal regulation and corporate law regarding ESG and proxy voting, explains how the SEC arrogated to itself powers not granted by Congress and used those powers to shift the balance of power towards political change agents whose interests are not aligned with investors. Berry also shows how the recent SCOTUS ruling against...

After decades of neglect, conservative shareholders just had a banner year placing far more proposals on the ballots of companies than they ever have before. Scott Shepard, who heads up The Free Enterprise Project (Free Enterprise Project - The National Center) at the National Center for Public Policy Research, has been tracking the resistance movement against the ideological capture of American corporations. Shepard discusses the fight to get JPMorgan Chase away from de-banking religious liberty groups, tech companies out of the business of suppressing verboten politics, and oil companies to stay in the oil business. He also discusses the...

Conservative activists have focused largely on complaining about celebrity corporate brands associated with ESG and stakeholder capitalism, such as Blackrock. However, state treasurers have turned their attention to the large proxy advisory services, which are arguably the most influential voices when it comes to whether your shares are being used to vote for policies that are in your interest. Led by Utah Treasurer Marlo Oaks, these financial officers are trying to fulfill their constitutional duty to the taxpayers and retirees of their states by constructively challenging institutions that are not highly visible, but are highly influential. Oaks talks with...

Bob Pruitt serves as Senior Counsel and Corporate Affairs Director with Alliance Defending Freedom. He recently appeared on Meeting of Minds to update our listeners about the state of affairs of the battle over religious freedom at America’s largest bank. He gave a helpful overview of the pattern of apparent discrimination, the engagement with the company by Financial Advisor David Bahnsen, the conflicting answers which the bank has given to shareholders and the press about the cancellation of Ambassador Sam Brownback’s account and the unwillingness of the company to participate in the Viewpoint Diversity Survey (Viewpoint Diversity Scor...

The Alliance Defending Freedom recently released its second annual Viewpoint Diversity Index, and the findings are shocking. The survey looks at 75 of the most prominent companies in America, with an emphasis on technology and financial firms. With few exceptions, their scores are in the single or low double-digit range (out of a scale of 100). Jeremy Tedesco, who heads up the Corporate Engagement project for ADF, describes the survey, explains where companies are failing and highlights the few companies that are moving in the right direction. Whether you are a customer, employee, investor, or all three, you should go to...

Dave Brat, former econ professor, congressman and now Vice Provost for Engagement at Liberty University explains how monetary bubbles have obscured the continuous declining productivity in the real economy, how a Christian culture shift made the West the leader of global prosperity, how the loss of the culture is causing us to lose that prosperity and how we might get both back. Brat explains the fundamental equation of economic output and inflation (MV=PQ) in clear language. He also talks about woke capitalism and ESG and previews Liberty’s Upcoming CEO Summit for Christians in the C-suite with a sp...

Todd Russ was a community bank CEO in Oklahoma who decided to become a public servant. He ran for Treasurer which he saw as a low-key “worker bee” kind of job. But when he learned how gigantic Wall Street firms like Blackrock were managing the pension assets of public workers and using those assets to undermine the hydrocarbon economy on which the workers of Oklahoma depend, he decided to go to battle. Working with the state legislature he helped change the law to allow the state to stop doing business with financial firms that boycott or undermine the energy indu...

A group of 14 state-level financial officials, led by Nebraska state Treasurer John Murante, recently wrote a letter to the CEO of JPMorgan Chase asking the bank to account for the recent cancellation of banking services to conservative organizations. Murante also discussed a new Biden proposal to impose an extra tax on mortgages for people with high credit ratings, a move likely to hurt the people it is intended to help as well as the banking system.

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Stephen Moore is one of the leading voices in favor of economic freedom and wealth creation. But being pro-wealth doesn’t necessarily mean being automatically pro-business. Moore talks about a new report created by The Committee to Unleash Prosperity https://committeetounleashprosperity.com/ , which exposes how many of the most trusted names in finance have been actually voting with their clients’ money for decarbonization and other policies, which if they were enacted, would severely harm their clients. Few people know that when they invest their money in investment funds, they give up their right to vote on corporate ballots, delegating thei...

David Bahnsen of The Bahnsen Group has used his authority as an investor to put a resolution on the ballot of JPMorgan Chase’s annual meeting held on Tuesday, which asks the company to be transparent about a troubling apparent pattern of debanking conservatives such as former Ambassador for religious liberty Sam Brownback. Bahnsen explains the difference between shareholder activism (which is hostile to capitalism) and shareholder engagement (which affirms the capitalist system). And he explains precisely how he and other investors can put corporate America back on track to wealth creation and away from social engineering.

Se...

Stephen Soukup is the leading intellectual critic of the "Woke Capitalism" movement, including its stakeholder capitalism and ESG investing elements. He talks with Meeting of Minds about his book, The Dictatorship of Woke Capital (https://www.encounterbooks.com/authors/stephen-r-soukup/), and the intellectual and spiritual roots of that movement. Soukup's historical research reveals how intellectual elites built governance structures intentionally designed to minimize the ability of citizens to use their voting authority to determine policy, and how those insulated power structures which they built were captured by cultural revolutionaries. His research can be found at https://wokecapital.org/.

Paul Chesser of the Corporate Integrity Project talks about why he and others have filed a statement in opposition to a proposal to be voted on by the shareholders of the Coca-Cola company, which would pressure the company to divest from pro-life states. The proposal is being voted on during Coca-Cola's annual meeting tomorrow morning, April 25th, 8:30 AM EDT.

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Will Hild is the Executive Director of Consumers’ Research (Consumers' Research (consumersresearch.org), America's oldest consumer advocacy group. Hild told Meeting of Minds that "stakeholder capitalism" models of money management hurt the customer by diluting financial return goals in favor of social ones. He also explained the failure of Silicon Valley Bank as an example in which the customers' and shareholders' interests were demoted beneath the political agenda of managers. Hild also discusses a recently released resource (Home - Our Money Our Values) which helps ordinary citizens who want to understand what ESG is and how it harms them.

The 1792 Exchange is making available to the public, at no charge, a tool which easily allows someone to assess the risk of getting cancelled by businesses with which they have dealings (Corporate Bias Ratings - 1792 Exchange). Whether you are simply a citizen using social media, or a business getting web hosting, banking or legal services, or tech support this online app allows you to type in the name of a company you deal with and get an automatic assessment of how prone that company is to cancel customers, employees or suppliers over political, ideological or religious differences. Paul Fitzpatrick...

Derek Kreifels of the State Financial Officers Foundation (https://sfof.com/) talks with Meeting of Minds about how state treasurers have been protecting the assets of their retirees and taxpayers by pulling money away from Wall Street firms that use their own money to vote against their interests. He also discusses OurMoneyOurValues, an educational initiative that explains in clear terms just what ESG is and how it harms us in our day-to-day lives. We learn that fighting against the imposition of politics into the management of pension assets was a winning electoral strategy for conservatives last year.

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Nicholas Stonestreet is the CEO of Ronald Blue Trust, the largest financial services firm built on Biblical principles of wealth management, with roughly 13 billion dollars under management. Stonestreet talked with Meeting of Minds about the recent recession and inflation, and why the economic troubles are not likely over yet. Stonestreet also offers practical solutions to the problem of large wall street firms such as Blackrock using shareholder money to promote their own social and political agenda. He advocates for a Christian strategy of assailing the gates of hell rather than retreat from corporate engagement.

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Is it wrong for the government of a coal-producing state such as Kentucky to stop doing business with banks that are committed to shutting down coal and other fossil fuel industries? Kentucky State Treasurer Allison Ball explains why she has put certain banks on notice that they should stop using Kentucky taxpayers' money against them or they will risk losing the state's business. She and Jerry also discuss the backlash from the ESG industry and their media allies, and the numerous fallacies used by the ESG industry against ESG-skeptical red-state officials.

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One of the most important and growing trends in finance is state officials who recognize their constitutional role to protect the financial interests of their taxpayers and retirees. We continue our discussion of this phenomenon with Nebraska Treasurer John Murante, who has spoken publicly about how Blackrock and others are not just attacking the energy industry, but attacking our food producers as well (https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/11/esg-investing-hurts-the-poor-and-empowers-tyrants/). He talks with Meeting of Minds about how politicized investing hurts farmers, and also empowers tyrants, and how it functions as a kind of secular religion.

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John Tillman of the American Culture Project talks to Meeting of Minds about how the conservative agenda is finding unexpected support among constituencies traditionally associated with the liberal coalition, including black, Latino and working-class white voters.

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America has a wonderful history of ‘civil society’ institutions. Issues that would be addressed by the state in Europe are addressed by ad hoc groups of private citizens in the U.S. However, in recent years many of those private associations have fallen into disrepair. Rick Graber of the Bradley Foundation talks about the sorts of groups that are knitting civil society back together again, especially private religious education, in communities in which the state has failed. Bradley has created an inspiring and uplifting series of videos about models of educational excellence that can be imitated around the nation: http...

Ambassador Sam Brownback, co-author of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act and former United States Ambassador at Large for International Religious Freedom, has been fighting for people who have been persecuted for their faith for his entire career. However, he didn't expect that he himself would become a victim of religious persecution by his own bank. He tells Meeting of Minds how a religious liberty group he founded had its account cancelled by Chase and how he launched Chased Away (https://thencrf.org/chasedaway) to put an end to denial of service based on anti-religious bias.

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The ESG "Socially Responsible Investing" industry is on the defense. Having pushed the ideological edge too far forward, they are reaching a point of resistance, particularly from red state treasurers and attorneys general. As these gatekeepers resist the politicization of finance, they are now being accused by the people who really are politicizing finance. For example, Treasurer Allison Ball of energy-producing Kentucky is blowing the whistle on anti-energy activism by Wall Street firms and pushing back on behalf of her constituents. She believes that "You cannot serve two masters." Her single goal is to pursue financial returns for her...

Peter Thiel, arguably the most successful tech investor of modern times, also reads widely and thinks deeply about philosophy and theology. In a fascinating follow-up to his previous interview about his mentor, Rene Girard, Thiel discusses how modern ideologies such as fascism and communism "up the dose" from murder to genocide as Christianity weakened the power of human sacrifice.  He also discusses how progressive ideologies are "stronger moves" than fascistic or reactionary ones because they weaponize Christianity's concern for victims. Thiel talks about how the state, with its origins in paganism, restrains violence by using violence and how Christians m...

In my upcoming interview with Peter Thiel, we will really hit the ground running, so you might benefit from re-listening to the one from last year to get you up to speed and ready for Peter's next set of insights, which are coming shortly. No discussion we've ever had has received as many requests by listeners for a follow-up.

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Peter Thiel, the highly successful tech entrepreneur and author, discusses his mentor Rene Girard; the Bible, how we read it, and how it reads us; Jesus’ death and resurrection; atheism and the limitless escalation of violence to...

No one has been more involved in fighting for the sanctity of life and marriage in corporate board rooms than Tom Strobhar. In his day job he works as a financial advisor http://www.strobharfinancial.org/, but since 1989 he has given of his own time, using his financial expertise and authority as a shareholder in major American companies to fight for the moral teachings of his Catholic faith. He has directly influenced scores of companies to drop funding to Planned Parenthood, including AT&T, Berkshire Hathaway and Chevron. He's filed well over a hundred resolutions on matters such as a...

The ideological capture of large American financial institutions is running into a barrier. State level offices such as Treasurer, Auditor General, and Comptroller are asserting their authority as financial watchdogs protecting the interests of their citizens. One of the leaders in this resurgence of federalism is Marlo Oaks, Treasurer of Utah (www.marlooaks.com) who wrote recently in the Wall Street Journal (S&P Hits U.S. States With Politicized Credit Scores - WSJ) about his efforts to protect his state from politically motivated scoring from rating agencies such as S&P. That battle over ideologically captured financial management...

On this episode of Meeting of Minds, Tom Carter of the American Conservative Values Fund www.investconservative.com talks about his company’s fifth survey of conservatives’ attitude towards various companies, including unfavourability towards large well-known publicly traded corporations. He talks about the shifts in attitudes towards Facebook, Disney and Tesla, as well as problems with the ESG movement. In addition, he talks about practical conservative alternatives to companies such as Blackrock, which have become tainted brands for conservatives.

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Rob West is CEO of Kingdom Advisors (www.kingdomadvisors.org) which is the world’s largest professional association for Christians in the financial industry. Rob also hosts the most widely-syndicated radio program for ordinary Christians (www.moneywise.org). On this episode of Meeting of Minds Podcast, Rob talks about the big topics he sees Christians, from the poor and middle class to the wealthy, needing to grapple with and what he’s learning by being in touch on a daily basis with Christian of all economic classes.

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At various times and places the major cultural battle lines have fallen in different spots. During WWII and the Cold War the conflict was centered in the military. At other times, our conflicts centered in politics or in the fight against biased media. Currently the zone of conflict has moved to the marketplace. The ideological capture of the boardrooms of many large publicly traded companies represents a threat, but also an opportunity for Christian entrepreneurs to speak up and promote the good of their employees. During a time of rapidly increasing volatility and confusion, the “load-bearing structure” class, the peop...

Andrew Olivastro, V.P. of Outreach for the Heritage Foundation, talks about how DEI (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion), ESG (Environmental, Social, Governance), and CSR (Corporate Social Responsibility) are ruining corporate America. Heritage believes people should not be made to feel bad when they buy or use products or invest in companies that deride their beliefs and take controversial stances against their values. ESG made the mistake of getting investors out of fossil fuels when energy is the foundation of civilization, and exposed investors to significant risk. Olivastro makes the case that the left agenda in corporate boardrooms has gotten overextended...

The State Financial Officers Foundation (https://sfof.com/) is the public voice of state-level constitutional officers whose job is to safeguard the people’s money and who are committed to small government, free-markets and to fighting the politicization of the financial sector. This includes treasurers and auditors general, which each have oversight roles when it comes to whom a state does business with and how money, such as the pension assets of employees, is invested. It has fallen to this group to stand up to activists who are pushing to de-bank energy and other politically disfavored industries, and to st...